The prehistoric 1990s were a different time for video games. Mascot platformers roamed the untamed jungles, with Mario and Sonic eternally duking it out while Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Croc, Rayman, and countless imitators scattered underfoot. Fast forward to now, and mascot platformer is barely even a genre anymore. A handful of big names remain, but most developers stopped trying to make the next Mario a long time ago. On this weeks Splitscreen, we dig into what happened.
To kick off the episode, Mike Fahey quizzes Ash Parrish and me on the history of video game mascots, touching on ubiquitous figures (Pac-Man), legends lost to time (Capcom used to have a mascot named Captain Commando), and characters Fahey has tattooed on his body (Jazz Jackrabbit). Then we move into a discussion of the latest instalment in one of the few remaining popular mascot platformer series, Ratchet & Clank. Fahey, whos beaten the game, tells us how good it is, but also that it definitely plays the hits of its own history, making it less than it could have been.
For our final segment, we bring on a very special guest, former Rare programmer and co-founder of Playtonic Games Chris Sutherland, to talk about what it was like to create two of the most enduring video game mascots of all time, Banjo and Kazooie, along with more recent creations like throwback platformer Yooka-Laylee. Then we discuss why the mascot platformer boom ended after the 90s and how modern games can pay homage without leaning so far into nostalgia that theres no coming back.
Get the MP3 here and check out an excerpt below.
Chris: Its interesting, isnt it, how these games seemed to just disappear after the 90s. My theory is that maybe its because, if you go back to the PS1, PS2, PS3, and so on, as each console generation came out, the push seemed to be more what I remember at the time is, theyd be showing you demos and, sure, there were rubber ducks, but there was often more focus on realistic faces. And it was like, Whoa, look how amazing the details are.
It was all about realism, because youre going from machines which could do realism like Goldeneye, but you can only do so much with a limited number of polygons. Its much easier to do stylised content thats more cartoony. But then as you get more and more power, these machines become more capable of doing things that are more realistic. And so these things are getting teased to players, and game makers are thinking, Thats what excites people, so they start to skew their games older.
So you have games that probably still have some elements of things like collecting and all kinds of interacting and adventuring. You know, the things Naughty Dog do with Nathan Drake. So the gameplay is still in there, but its dressed up for a slightly older audience. Particularly I suppose as people have grown older, they want something that feels a bit older. I think maybe that might be one of the reasons theres been a drift away from those mascot-type games. Thats one theory anyway.
Fahey: You can also say that mascot games have changed. As I was looking at mascot characters for this podcast, people were saying, An Xbox mascot is Marcus Fenix. Not what you traditionally think of as a mascot character, but Nathan Drake and Marcus Fenix have kind of come in and taken the place of some of these mascot characters. I mean, good for the video game industry for getting advanced enough that you can have a character that looks like a real person and resonates with people like a real guy, but still, Im always a child of the 80s and 90s, and I love my cartoon characters more than anything.
Chris: Yeah. I mean, if you have a mascot character that appeals to everyone, I guess from the platform-holders point of view, youve got more flexibility, I would assume. If you can have a Mario-style character, you can show it to anybody of any age. Whereas if youve only got Master Chief or Marcus Fenix, youre kind of limited. I suppose you can always do a Lego version.
Fahey: You could do Gears of War tennis.
Nathan: That would be amazing. I want Gears of War tennis with Waluigi still. No one knows why hes there, but hes there.
Fahey: Take cover behind the net!
Nathan: But I think another thing, whether fair or not, is that it seems at this point like the mascot platformers that do come out are pretty laden in nostalgia. I think thats very true in yalls case with Yooka-Laylee, since you were deliberately hearkening back to Banjo Kazooie. But do you think modern mascot platformers can still break new ground? Or are they kind of intrinsically nostalgia trips at this point? Is that just sort of what theyve been relegated to?
Chris: I think they have to break new ground, really. I think you see some of these things in the way that Nintendos doing that with games like Mario Odyssey the way theyve progressed that. If you look back to previous titles in that series, theyve progressed each time. Even with Bowsers Fury, theyve progressed even further still. Theyre kind of generally pushing, but thats Nintendo for you.
For everybody else, I hope theres a way to move things forward and that we can see new things in this genre. Otherwise youre just gonna have the same people who are gonna look at it from a nostalgic point of view, and I think in terms of an audience, thats not a great one to have. Theyre gonna dwindle in size. You kind of need new things and exciting things to keep people interested.
Nathan: What does that mean for yourself and your next game, which I assume is going to be called Two-Ka-Laylee? When you look at something like Mario Odyssey, what do you think you can take from that?
Chris: So we do look at a lot of the new games Nintendo comes out with, mainly because they are the pinnacle of what is out there. We take inspiration from the kinds of things they do. But if you go back to Mario on Nintendo 64 and this is something that was in Banjo as well theyve [since] done things where you go into worlds, and you stay in the world instead of getting knocked out of it and having to go through and do all these things again before you can get to the next star, or in Odysseys case, moon. By having the moons in the world so that theyre there, you collect one moon and then you continue on your journey, thats a nod to the fact that its on Switch. You pick it up and put it down, and you want it to be a snack-sized challenge so you can go, Im trying to get this far or that far now, and theres enough content in that game where they dont have to throw you back to kind of make you go through everything again. You can always see new content unless youre gonna play for many, many hours.
So that kind of idea is quite interesting the idea that youre not having to backtrack so much. Until the very latest stages of Odyssey, where they have things that youd seen throughout the whole of your playthrough, but then theres these strange cubes, and youre like, I thought Id completed the game, but theres these cubes. And so it opens up again. Thats a great example where somebody can play through and feel theyve finished the game and put it away, but for somebody else who really wants more, its like a sponge, and they can just keep squeezing it. The range of people that appeals to is great, because its not an insurmountable challenge for everyone. Its like, Ive defeated the enemy, Ive rescued who I needed to rescue, and Ive completed the game. Theres the credits.
We see now where theres people who are really focused on and interested in one game, and theyll play it to death. You want to give something to those people, as well as to the people who are just gonna play it once. You want to give something to everybody whos gonna play, so you want to work out how to do that, as well as how it balances with your development time.
Ash: One final question: Given that Kazooie can walk with a bear on her back, how much can she leg press?
Chris: Ive never been asked that question! At least the weight of one bear and a backpack, I guess. Shes quite strong there, but she was also, in Bubblegloop Swamp with the Wading Boots, able to extend her legs. She could have very long legs and still carry a bear, so that was probably even more of a feat of strength. Exactly what weight Banjo is, I dont know if thats ever been documented, and I dont know if I know the answer to that. If you can find the weight of a bear, thats a good starting point.
For all that and more, check out the episode. New episodes drop every Friday, and dont forget to like and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Stitcher. Also, if you feel so inclined, leave a review, and you can always drop us a line at [email protected] if you have questions or to suggest a topic. If you want to yell at us directly, you can reach us on Twitter: Ash is @adashtra, Fahey is @UncleFahey, and Nathan is @Vahn16. See you next week!
